Quality Trout Fishing Experience Tool Opinions Needed

[lowwall]

I would like to come up with a tool in help identifying waters that should be managed for a Quality Trout fishing experience. This is not meant to identify waters that could support wild fish or necessarily even holdover fish. But areas that would benefit by special regulations.

I would like to see hard acceptance criteria based on the quality attributes needed to provide a Quality Trout Fishing experience.

I Put This Out There For The Group To Help Fill In The Details. These attributes can apply to Both River and Still water.


1)Public Access, # Parking Spaces etc per Mile?

2) Water Quality
2-1: Temperature Requirements (68-72F)
2-2: pH , 6.7 t- 8.2
2-3: DO , above 5.0 ppm

3) Carrying Capacity ?

[s2ary]

From an amateurs perspective I think some of the water quality things you’re looking at can be ‘fixed’ through habitat enhancements.

I think the big key to establishing a destination fishery will be watershed characteristics. We should be looking for a watershed that has a stable groundwater supply (surface groundwater as opposed to deep groundwater). This will establish a stable cool stream flow. Also the size of the waterbody, big fish need space to roam. Most of the stuff that I’ve seen shows that predators work areas periodically. It stands to reason. They hunt this area for a few days then move to another for a day, back to the original for one night and then to an area 1/8 mile away. It keeps the prey off balance. Northern Harriers hunt in a similar way, so do some foxes.

Next comes aquatic invertebrate populations. The majority of aquatic invertebrates are ‘shredders’ that feed on organic matter in the water body. The majority or traditional sources for this organic matter is from annual leaf drop into the watershed. So a wooded riparian corridor is a big plus for more than just shading the stream channel.

Those two factors combine to provide favorable survival rates and ample food sources. Any additional factors can be enhanced, but without cold water and ample food we are dead in the water. ( :lol: no pun intended)

DO: Dissolved Oxygen rates can be increased to the point of saturation by adding significant riffle stretches along a stream channel.

Ph: In New England our Ph is low, if you’re lucky it might reach 7. Usually it is much lower. Each species of fish has an optimum range, but they tolerate a range far beyond that optimum range. Brookies can tolerate a Ph in the 4’s. I think at some point above 4 there is a Ph range that limits the aquatic invertebrates’ ability to produce chitin for their exoskeleton. If that is correct, Ph is less of a limiting factor than we are often led to believe.

Water quality: As long as the water quality is within reason it can be corrected over time. Simple projects that prevent silt from entering the waterbody, streamside vegetation improvement, etc.

[lowwall]

What I was getting at was a way to identify waters that could be managed now like the Lamprey. With the atributes in place that would make it a canidate for restoration some day but not in all cases.

For now this is for identifying places to apply special regs and stockings.
Once we have these places identified, go from there.

So Lets gets some specific's, Something that can easily be applied and understood.

I know you got them!

[OTTER]

Great Bay Trout Unlimited has spent approximately $1000.00 to purchase equipment to measure various water quality data such as pH, DO (dissolved oxygen), Temperature, Turbidity, Flow, etc. We have spent a lot of time and effort as well, going to workshops, field trials, etc to acquaint ourselves with the equipment and procedures which must be followed.

Various agencies have differing levels of accuracy or precision that they require. Otherwise collected data will not be accepted. DES ( Division of Environmental Studies ) uses EPA standards which are quite stringent. NHF&G may only be interested in finding how water quality effects fish and wildlife. We at GBTU want to at least meet NHF&G requirements.

On the other hand, since we are paying for and stocking fish in rivers of unknown quality, we may be satisfied with less data. That is; we are stocking in the fall, so summer quality is not an immediate issue. However, we do want to find out if conditions exist for fish to holdover during the summer; even if a naturally reproducing population can not be attained.

One small comment is that we will not find any water in NH that is alkaline; that is with a pH over 7.0. In fact we will be lucky to find a pH as high as 6.0. The limiting factors for us and for NHF&G is volunteer time to go out and do the work. We need help.

In my Opinion ( I am not used to the email shorthand. I guess that would be IMO ) Until and unless FFinNH actually meets physically in some place on a regular basis, we are not the agency to get anything done. I believe our job is to communicate ideas, etc to each other and then point people to established groups who are doing just about everything that has been mentioned on this site. We need ideas. But the groups who gave you the Piscataqua and the Lamprey and other fall opportunities to fish, need money and time a hell of a lot more than ideas.

While I am on a tirade, how much does it cost to go on any short fishing trip ( I am not talking about Montana, New York or even Pittsburg, NH ). One half day trip just a couple gallons of gas, a few lost flies, tippets,indicators or an occasional lost or broken equipment..........A dozen people from Great Bay Trout Unlimited have given 90% of the $5,000 plus or minus to make the stocking of the Lamprey and Cocheco possible. We need anglers to contribute at least $10 for every trip they make to these rivers. We need more people to give $100.

Including the matching that I offered, I gave $800.00 toward this year's stocking. I am 77, on a limited fixed income with inflation over the past 12 years ( since age 65) starting to squeeze me. Next year my contribution will be $100 at most. So step up to the plate guys if you fish the Lamprey. Send in the checks. I sound like lowwal now , don't I ? Yes buy the FFinNH stickers too.

[lowwall]

I think FFNH can contribute Ideas but also be a place to gather data from all groups , working to obtain the same goals. I am sure most of the data is out there. We just need to get it organized.

That is where standard's OP's need to be put in place. To identify these areas. Where we can do the most good.

Not meeting physically has it's advantages, TU's meet Aprox 6 Times a year. We are here 365 24/7, We can do more than chit chat

[Solid]

Aren't you supposed to be working?

[lowwall]

I am slow at the moment, makes up for missing all of JUN-MID JUL fishing.

[Casey A. Wood]

Solid--Are YOU working today?

[Solid]

Never!

[GOLDNDEMON]

First let me say that I applaud your involvement and support what your goal. So, if we don't agree it's not for lack of interest in the goal.

I think your mention that it does not have to be a fishery that grows wild fish or even holdovers needs a bit of adjustment. If the fishery does not have holdover or at least the STRONG POTENTIAL of holdovers are we not investing in a lost cause. We know that some bodies of water get stocked with little or no hope of long term survival and that's ok as long as we recognize it for what it is, put and take. On the other hand I'm not suggesting we focus on high profile well known places either. I think you need to look at the sleepers. The "decent" fisheries that could become quality fishing. By that we don't limit ourselves to the same hot spots that we and all of fishingdom know and we don't throw good money and effort after bad. Let's try to add waters to the quality list. Yes I have places I would like to see improved on but first a plan of attack and then the target.
Just my opinions.[/b]

[SWW]

Come on guys, this is starting to look like a high school dance, a lot of people on the side watching. You need to meet and start something or get more involved in your local groups and put your energy there.

[s2ary]

Honestly, with the exception of temperature I don’t think that the water quality is all that important. That is not a popular belief, but the fact is trout tolerate a wide range of water bodies and the only consistent limiting factor is thermal stress.

Now for what we are talking about doing we can streamline our search by focusing on water bodies that are known to have holdovers and occasionally throw a BIG fish. The Sacco maybe? I’ve heard tell of some monsters there.

[lowwall]

Thanks for chiming in. Would love to see all the TU’s input here.

How long this effort has been going on this site, I would say about 2 month tops, Short time in my book:

Accomplishments to date:

1) We started this forum for disusing these issues.

2) Started Sticker Campaign for CFR

3) Gone to the state and introduced ourselves, stressing that we want to get involved with TU and other ORG on local projects. And support those efforts.

4) Had a representative meet with the Pemi chapter of and pitch a lamprey like management scheme for the river. The rep is now the VP of the Pemi chapter of TU. (PEMI TU Is all for it). We are going to find some preexisting information to go on first, Drawing from the knowledge of the TU’s.

Plans: Next Month, I am attending the MMVTU meeting to join the chapter one of there boards if they will have me. I would like to see some in place at the GBTU .( I was hoping S2ary.). and SACO Valley. I would like to see all ORGS working together sharing information.


This area of this site could then be used to communicate these issues and hopefully illicit some support. No one intends to go it alone or reinvent the wheel or going it alone (I am really getting tired of saying this).

So I look forward to working with you guys, let’s not start a rift before we get anything started. Fighting amongst ourselves will accomplish anything. No one wants to reinvent the wheel here. I am thick skinned enough to ignore the attacks and insults that occur here. I ask all members to do the same.

SO Mark, Otter and all other detractors. Shine Up your Dancing Shoes! I look forward to seeing what tools you guys have in place to make these decisions as well as seeing the level of communication among the TU across the state.

One thing for sure, we will make a positive change for fishing in NH. One way or the other.

[OTTER]

lowwal: You are the last person I had in mind with my recent posts. I do not consider myself detracting but rather hoping to get folks to focus and act. You have done a lot beside sending out posts. You have gone to various meetings and have made a committment to get involved with one of the organizations which are doing something about the situation in NH. If everyone else on the site did what you are doing, I would be delighted. I also hope that s2ary would join and come to meetings at GBTU; or for that matter wherever he prefers.

[GOLDNDEMON]

Lowwall,

i like your attitude towards these issues and appreciate your enthusiasm. Yes, considerable efforts have been made in a short time. Getting started can be challenging but i think keeping it going can be a chore in itself. I look forward to further discussion.