The Brookie Problem: An Opinion

[OTTER]

I believe that the most difficult issue to deal with in restoring brookies is the alien invasive species that has devestated brookie populations and has totally eliminated them in many bodies of water; namely, BASS. Both Large Mouth and Small Mouth. I cannot tell you how many bodies of water I have fished, in my life time, that have been permanently and dramatically altered by the introduction of these two species. The Rapid River and Umbagog are recent obvious examples that have been in the news.

I do not believe that Rainbow Trout, Brown Trout and Landlocked salmon are the invasive species that threaten brookie restoration at this point. Therefore, I believe that stocking adult trout of all species for catch and release will be necessary until a way can be found to eradicate bass from rivers and ponds that were inhabited by brookies before the veterans of the Civil War brought them up North. And bass are still being spread illegally by anglers to this present time.

One interesting note is this. The only place I know that Largemouth Bass have not destroyed a brook trout "fishery" is Shawtown Pond. Many anglers have noticed and remarked on the fact that the Bass there never grow large and are not a threat to the brookies. That is true because (1) bass (like salmon) cannot grow large without forage fish to feed on. And no forage fish have been illegally introduced to the pond yet. And 2) only adult brookies are stocked and are able to survive these small bass. If these brookies actually spawned and produced significant offspring, the bass would most likely gobble them up as forage fish and then grow large enough to feed on the adult brookies that are stocked.

Again my belief ( and I may be wrong ) is that Bass elimination is overall more important than dam removal, water quality, water temperature, etc. for the large scale restoration of brookies to their original waters. However in certain areas, such as the work at Nash Stream or the proposed removal of a dam on the salmon falls river, I believe that a limited amount of good can be accomplished before the bass problem is solved.

[Banks10]

I have often wondered about bass as well. I am certainly not an expert on brook trout by any stretch. And I know a lot of people on this board to sometimes fish for bass (myself included), but it seems that the introduction of bass seems to coincide with the reduction of brook trout.
Again, I don't know a lot on the topic, but I would like to know more about how much this does have an affect.

[s2ary]

I don’t see it as as much of a problem as you guys do. But it is late, so I can only give a brief answer.

It is not the way we are used to looking at fish, but I see Brookies as a forest species, and we can’t expect a forest species to out compete an open space species in an open space. Given the appropriate environment the best suited species dominates.

In the same way that we would not expect a Lion to out compete a Jaguar in the jungle, we can not expect a Brookie to out compete a bass in waterways that are restrained and warm. But if we take away the dams the bass loose their advantage and the Brookies regain the higher ground.

[llama-dude]

While removing the dams might solve the bass problem, it will open the door for the rainbows and browns. Down in the mountains around NC there are a lot of people talking about creating water breaks and small dams to prevent the rainbows and browns from heading too far upstream and interfering with the brookie population.

Fortunately there are signs that the brookies are reproducing in the stocked portions of streams down here, and are doing quite well in the wild trout sections. The best place to find the brookies though are up on the blue lines. They are very tough to catch and don't get very big, but they are there.

Just my two cents worth.

[OTTER]

s2ary, I see that you have some excellent thoughts on the subject of Brook Trout. I am a bit confused as to what you see as the ultimate goal. Clearly you are thinking decades ahead when you are talking about the current British angling situation. And how would you ( in an ideal world), proceed toward this goal?

And are you advocating the ceasing of all stocking now or in the near future to reach that goal. Do you oppose the idea desired by so many anglers to create more " trophy" fishing experiences. Are you opposed to extending fishing seasons into the fall? Are you advocating that we stop all such programs and transfer the moneys and efforts in that endeavor toward what you see as that ultimate goal? I will save more thoughts after your reply except to say that, "Utopian ideas are the most dangerous of all."

We are not going back to the "Garden of Eden" we are going forward toward some unknown and unforeseen future. We can't think too far ahead because who knows what the future will spring on us; things like Global Warming ( I could make a long list). I do not know for sure what factors are involved in Global Warming. But I think it is a fact and will get worse. And could make all our present good ideas irrelevent.

Meanwhile, concerning others' contributions: Like North Carolina,
Wisconsin has successfully created brookie only sections up stream of dams or natural obstacles with great success. One creek in particular that I enjoy fishing was electroshocked three years in a row to remove all browns. The wild brookie C&R fishing there is great ( as long as you use a 7 foot 3 Wt or less flyrod ).

[lapoinm899]

The way I look at the situation is that any non-native aquatic organism should be looked at as a problem. Bass, and any sort of non-native sunfish or ravenous carnivore will change the ecosystem it invades. The rapid is a great example where it has been illegally stocked with an invasive fish. And by all rights any fish that you catch in that river that is not native such as a bass must be taken or destroyed to protect the ecosystem in attempts to restore it to its original state. Though most of these attempts are in vain because the bass and sunfish reproduce at a staggering rate and with a lack of barriers natural or man made, these fish flourish; it’s the same with browns and rainbows as they are not as much as a problem as bass they are still invasive and cause their share of problems.

Maine is not happy with NH due to the stocking of browns and rainbows in the Swift and Dead Diamond Rivers, as these rivers have tributaries that lead into the Magalloway River which is one of rivers on the shrinking list of un-stocked watersheds in Maine.

What am I trying to say; well we are in a dire situation as about 90% of the watersheds in NH have invasive species swimming around making babies and destroying the natural ecosystem. Is it too late to make a change, no; but drastic steps must be taken. Such as the stop of the stocking of Rainbows and Browns, and switching over to the only native fish, and rules about the catching of bass and other non-native fish, stating for them either to be taken or destroyed. It’s a big step and will probably never be taken, but realistically the only way to remove invasive species is just that to remove and or destroy them.

[s2ary]

[quote="llama-dude"]While removing the dams might solve the bass problem, it will open the door for the rainbows and browns.

Fortunately there are signs that the brookies are reproducing in the stocked portions of streams down here, and are doing quite well in the wild trout sections. quote]

You hit upon what will be a sore subject in the Northeast, and fortunately you continued on to provide the answer for us.

The biggest competitors to trout are other trout species. This is because most share similar habitat requirements. Each of the riparian trout species overlaps with each other, however they also have specialized niches.

From a perspective of restoring a traditional sportfishery, that is perfect. We restore the riparian habitats and allow natural selection to sort the species into their preferred habitats.

But from the longterm perspective of restoring an indigenous traditional sportfishery, further refinement would be necessary. Brookies are the coolest and most acid tolerant trout species in our waters, with the exception of a few watersheds in Maine with Bluebacks. So over time with better watershed management practices we will replenish our localized groundwater supplies. These localized groundwater discharges will enter our streams and rivers at approximately 55*F, lowering the mean temperature ranges of our streams. This combined with our naturally lower pHs will give Brookies the upper hand in many waterways.

[s2ary]

[quote]I am a bit confused as to what you see as the ultimate goal. Clearly you are thinking decades ahead when you are talking about the current British angling situation. And how would you ( in an ideal world), proceed toward this goal?

My ideal goal is to restore sustainable traditional sportfisheries throughout the region. I also feel that to the extent practical these efforts should focus on indigenous traditional sportfisheries. These words and the intent are very specific to me, but may not be to others. In England they allowed their resources to degrade to the point that their sustainable fisheries are based on nontraditional sportfish. In many water bodies we already have these conditions except the true extent of the degradation is masked by Put and Take Management Practices.


And are you advocating the ceasing of all stocking now or in the near future to reach that goal. Do you oppose the idea desired by so many anglers to create more " trophy" fishing experiences. Are you opposed to extending fishing seasons into the fall? Are you advocating that we stop all such programs and transfer the moneys and efforts in that endeavor toward what you see as that ultimate goal?

No, I think we need to be a lot smarter about how we do things. Anglers insist on stocking big stupid fish with rotted fins (aka Floppy Rags) so they can catch them, not the F&G. I feel we need to transition these programs towards stocking larger numbers of smaller fish into restored waterways that can sustain these fingerlings until they reach maturity, and in waterways that have the ability to become self sustaining, these areas should be managed towards Indigenous Traditional Fisheries. Over geological time, as our strategic restoration plans mature the percentage of self sustaining Indigenous Traditional Fisheries will increase. The key to success is looking at restoration from the perspective of geological time, not in terms of next season's fishing.


I will save more thoughts after your reply except to say that, "Utopian ideas are the most dangerous of all."
On this I could not disagree more. I feel that the practice of an Ostrich putting its head in the sand and expecting things to be OK when it pulls it out is far more dangerous than a strategic plan to advance the trajectory of our resources.

We are not going back to the "Garden of Eden" we are going forward toward some unknown and unforeseen future. We can't think too far ahead because who knows what the future will spring on us; things like Global Warming ( I could make a long list). I do not know for sure what factors are involved in Global Warming. But I think it is a fact and will get worse. And could make all our present good ideas irrelevent.

Precisely we are spiraling into the crapper. Your concern and observations of Bass are correct, however, they are also misguided. Bass are encroaching and outcompeting traditional sportfish as a result of habitat degradation. That’s not entirely true for smallies but it is 100% correct for large mouths.

The species best suited to dominate and environment will eventually out compete other species less adapted to that environment. The pendulum swings both ways. With a comprehensive strategic restoration strategy we will be able to shift our riparian resources back to favoring traditional sportfisheries. But like global warming, there is no smoking gun, and it will take a concerted effort from a number of efforts to achieve that goal.

[lowwall]

Great conversation going on, glad to see the board involved in some thoughtful topics.

Here are my humble opinions

1) BASS, can get away from eradicating them from places like the Rapid and Umbagog. But if a large-scale campaign was started down this road you would have strong opposition 99% of anglers. This would hurt the cause as most casual anglers these day's are BASS anglers; we don't need to get them riled up. They are opening a BASS PRO in Foxboro, MA this week. Huge PR machine at work, we don’t need to battle those guys.

2) Restoration\Quaility: We need to get our traditional water into shape no doubt but Quality fisheries will get more anglers involved in groups that’s ultimate goal is restoration. I see a 2-stage attack,

Stage 1#: Develop quality fisheries in NH in waters where no Known reproduction occurs, or will occur any time soon. This means rubber Bows and Browns. This will boost memberships in groups who support these areas and supplement there stocking with private funds. This will also increase licenses sales in and out of state.

Stage: In parallel with Item#1 start developing some traditional waters using the revenue and community power of anglers.

3) Quality Water Identification: I got slammed for this in the past as trying to reinvent the wheel but, we need to come up with a list, Quality Put and Take Water Candidates and Restoration Water Candidates. There needs to be clear guidelines as to what constitutes each. This may exsist alrady, All local TU's and ORG should be on the same page with this if it does.

[OTTER]

s2ary said "Anglers insist on stocking big stupid fish with rotted fins (aka Floppy Rags) so they can catch them, not the F&G."

As chairman of the Great Bay TU Stocking Committee, I will surprise you by saying I agree with you. These big browns and rainbows we put into the Lamprey are as phoney as a three dollar bill. The reason we do it is to delay the onset of symptoms of withdrawal on the part of the addicted trout fishing angler population of which I am one. It is a one step removed from shooting fish in a barrel.

There is absolutely no comparison between a stocked 18 inch rainbow in the Lamprey River and a wild 18 inch rainbow from the Androscoggin River. But half a slice is better than none.

[s2ary]

A few more thoughts that I’m having a hard time communicating;

1) When a riparian resource has been effectively restored bass populations will decline. This will be because both spawning and nursery habitats that favor bass will be reduced in the watershed. Another bass reduction tool is timely draw downs during spawning periods. So in a way by returning to our indigenous resource trajectories we will naturally limit competitive species.
2) Traditional Sportfisheries is a term that includes all of the salmonid species. Indigenous Traditional Sportfisheries limits the salmonid species to Brookies, Atlantic Salmon and in some prospective Landlocks. However, just because other salmonids may not be managed for in a particular resource it would not mean that they are excluded or removed from the resource.
3) I don’t see Brookies as an inferior species. I think one of the perspectives we need to overcome is the feeling that Brookies are 4-6 inch fish. Given the ability Brookies attain larger sizes, much larger sizes. We seem to have forgotten this because the majority of our experiences with this species are in marginal habitats.
4) I do not see establishing quality fisheries as a conflicting strategy to restoration. On the contrary, I do not think you can establish a quality fishery without a restoration component.

[s2ary]

s2ary said "Anglers insist on stocking big stupid fish with rotted fins (aka Floppy Rags) so they can catch them, not the F&G."

As chairman of the Great Bay TU Stocking Committee, I will surprise you by saying I agree with you. These big browns and rainbows we put into the Lamprey are as phoney as a three dollar bill. The reason we do it is to delay the onset of symptoms of withdrawal on the part of the addicted trout fishing angler population of which I am one. It is a one step removed from shooting fish in a barrel.

There is absolutely no comparison between a stocked 18 inch rainbow in the Lamprey River and a wild 18 inch rainbow from the Androscoggin River. But half a slice is better than none.

I know, we have talked about that in the past. My intentions are not to discredit put and take fisheries, only to spur us into action. I feel certain that the days of managing fisheries in this manner are numbered.

We need to step up and tap into federal funds to restore the riparian resource so that the fish stocked into it have the ability to survive throughout the year. Once we’ve completed that we can then continue to manage the resource with a greater number of fingerlings.

The reliance on annual stockings with adult fish that will not survive the season is a practice that will not sustain the fishery. No matter how few or how many anglers use the resource. Another benefit from numerous self sustaining fisheries is there will be little use for closed seasons in the fall. Salmonids do not guard a redd, and although I do not agree with fishing over spawning fish, the few anglers that do practice this would be spread out across the state, and therefore minimizing negative impacts to the fisheries.

[OTTER]

s2ary said, "3) I don’t see Brookies as an inferior species. I think one of the perspectives we need to overcome is the feeling that Brookies are 4-6 inch fish. Given the ability Brookies attain larger sizes, much larger sizes. We seem to have forgotten this because the majority of our experiences with this species are in marginal habits. "

If you saw the brookies lowall posted for me on favorite places, you can see that even in a small pond South of the Lakes region; large brookies in self sustaining populations can exist with no stocking ( in the absence of other fish and managed for fish population density.).

My view is that brookies are by far the most delicious tasting of all; and I do eat a lot of them. They are incredibly beautiful. But at best even larger wild brookies tend to do little more than thrash around when hooked. But to me wild Browns are equally beautiful, but stronger and a lot more challenging (or frustrating) to catch. Neither of these can equal the run to the backing a fair size wild rainbow provides. Although to me Rainbows taste like sawdust.

So I enjoy all three for different reasons.

[s2ary]

I hear you, I'd like to see places like the Lamprey and other coastal rivers managed in a manner similar to the way the great lakes manage their migratory fish.

Maybe that could be a topic for another day. :wink:

[bridgeman]

I hate to sound like Al Gore but, global warming and habitat distruction is the root cause of the brookie problem in my opinion. Local efforts may help a small population fish in a small section of river. The big picture for New Hampshire cold water fisheries is grim. Warmer water = more bass =less trout. Rampant development is the problem that can be death to local stream fishing. One misplaced culvert on a cold water feeder and the whole population of a stream is history. One Walmart parking lot of 300000 sq./ft. like the new one in Gorham, will super heat the run-off and heat the androscoggin just a little more down in Shelburn. This is the real issue. I never see parking lots torn up and trees put in for trout. I sure see a lot of trees cut down for the almighty auto.

[s2ary]

I hate to sound like Al Gore but, global warming and habitat distruction is the root cause of the brookie problem in my opinion. Local efforts may help a small population fish in a small section of river. The big picture for New Hampshire cold water fisheries is grim. Warmer water = more bass =less trout. Rampant development is the problem that can be death to local stream fishing. One misplaced culvert on a cold water feeder and the whole population of a stream is history. One Walmart parking lot of 30000 sq./ft. like the new one in Gorham, will super heat the run-off and heat the androscoggin just a little more down in Shelburn. This is the real issue. I never see parking lots torn up and trees put in for trout. I sure see a lot of trees cut down for the almighty auto.

This is one of the reasons I think we need to push for better watershed management practices.

Past Stormwater management strategies are dismal failures. We are involved with a site redevelopment where we are introducing a whole new concept in treatment and utilization of stormwater to enhance a potential fishery. Even though the system will cost about 10% more with a more comprehensive maintenance program, the client couldn’t be happier. They recognize that past systems with silt lined ponds and storm scepters are failures and they just implement them to follow protocols. They see this system as simple straight forward and good stewardship.

For starters everyone needs to be very familiar with the water cycle. http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/images/ocp2003/ocpfy2003-fig5-1.htm

When precipitation is allowed to percolate into the ground it eventually is discharged into a stream, or less commonly into a lake or pond. No matter what temperature the water is when it enters the ground, if it stays in the ground as groundwater it comes out in our streams and rivers at 55*F. More than cool enough to maintain our traditional sportfisheries. This is due to the same principles that keep your basement cool in the summer, the earth absorbs the heat.

Currently our region is experiencing Re-development. Meaning many of the sites that were once developed are being redone into chain stores and box stores, and many former farmlands are growing houses. This is a good opportunity to implement changes in how our region handles stormwater management.

Advocacy. Through advocacy we can get the message out and change the strip mall mentality. Simple changes will make the big difference. Right now there are technologies available to store and infiltrate stormwater in chambers under a parking lot. So rain falls on the impervious surface and heads to a storm drain. After treatment the rainwater then is held in subterranean chambers under the impervious surface where it cools and percolates down to the water table. As if it percolated through a permiable surface.

Another simple change is to stop all the screened loam and grass. Screened loam sets up like concrete and does not allow much water to percolate, and on a summer day the ground temp is in the 115*F range. We need to decrease the groomed areas and promote shrub rows with coarse sandy loam as a soil base. The shaded canopy maintains the ground temps in the low 60*F range. These changes are almost too simple, but they are proven to cool and maintain porosity in the landscape. If we can implement these changes on a project by project bases throughout the region our grandkids will enjoy what our generation has lost.

I have a lot of considerations for the DOT as well.

[OTTER]

I agree with both bridgeman and s2ary. Which is why I recently emailed the following to Great Bay Trout Unlimited which goes along with your ideas which are expressed better than mine.

"As far as the Save the Brookie Program is concerned, it frankly is of some but minor interest to me in the grand scheme of things in general and for conservation in particular. Removing land from future development, slowing the paving of the rest of the planet, getting the USA to be more energy efficient, etc. is much more important to Brook Trout than the Save the Brookie initiative of TU..............."